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Post by bladedragon on Oct 2, 2004 21:09:15 GMT -5
i think if goku gets spirit bomb there should b a a way for villians 2 counter if u have any ideas how then plz say. ( this is if goku gets spirit bomb)
my ideas: make a series of skills 2 counter it or stop it.
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Post by Cha0s on Oct 2, 2004 21:20:47 GMT -5
Considering that most characters already have their ultimate attack , It would just be a matter of pumping said skills up to equal spirit bomb in power.
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Post by KingCrazyGenius on Oct 2, 2004 21:55:25 GMT -5
Why should everything be equal to the spirit bomb!
IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE UBER! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEADS! Why else would it rely on mana donations from all the Z fighters?
Besides, Goku will take a while to charge it, villains could take that time to escape or kill him, depending on their whims.
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Post by bladedragon on Oct 2, 2004 21:57:51 GMT -5
i did'nt mean like copy it i mean like stop it or any way of countering might not work evry time like the 1st time counter works but 2nd it fails. depennds on what it is weither it fails or works.
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Post by KingCrazyGenius on Oct 2, 2004 21:59:26 GMT -5
Of course there will be counters. If Goku gets stunned or killed the bomb won't go off. Also if it doesn't get powerful enough it won't finish off the villain, giving him a chance to escape or kill the mana-less Goku.
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Post by Cha0s on Oct 2, 2004 22:00:19 GMT -5
Considering that most characters already have their ultimate attack , It would just be a matter of pumping said skills up to equal spirit bomb in power. The best counter to the spirit bomb is to go and attack Goku , If you cannot reach him in time , you would be better off killing someone who is donating to him so that the bomb isnt quite as powerful. As far as abilities to counter or equal the bomb , my quoted post above handles that. |
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Post by bladedragon on Oct 2, 2004 22:04:35 GMT -5
i really don't think eqauling the spirit bomb would do much. it would just b another waste of train time. z fighters use bomb then villians start pumping there move it would happen the same evry time. i like the idea of stunning and killing goku better. and killing the ppl giving him ki
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Post by Cha0s on Oct 2, 2004 22:08:13 GMT -5
You dont seem to understand what I just posted. I said the best COUNTER was to kill goku or his power donaters. If evil wanted equal abilities to the spirit bomb , My quote handled it. Grrr..  |
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Post by CNukemR on Oct 3, 2004 8:09:38 GMT -5
i agree, that the spirit bomb (as well as certain other attacks, vegeta suicide, and some of evil's planet killing attacks) should be their own attack, and not have 50 billion ways to counter them...
with that said though, there should be no auto kills/wins...
make spirit bomb able to do 10K dmg or somesuch, but not auto kill
also, a thought, when goku is charging bomb, anyone that sends him mana, should be paused for duration as well, and maybe with mana drain effect linking them to goku (if they die ,all the mana isnt sent, obviously)
and assuming we dont do auto kills, i dont mind seeing vegeta's suicide attack..
but i want a damn nice crater and flamestrike minimully...
(plz not permanent though..)
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Post by KingCrazyGenius on Oct 3, 2004 9:45:20 GMT -5
The thing about the planet destroying attacks is every single villain who has attempted to do so or succeeded in doing so already has the attack they used to attempt to do so with. Buu has his Vanishing Ball, Cell has Kamehameha, Metal Koola has Death Ball, and Broly has his Destruction Sphere. I don't recall Super 13 or Bebi ever trying to destroy the planet.
I don't see why you guys are trying to make Spirit Bomb just another attack. Gotenkz's idea to make it all uber and mana draining and stuff was vastly superior. Do you all play as villains all the time or something?
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Post by CNukemR on Oct 3, 2004 10:17:54 GMT -5
The thing about the planet destroying attacks is every single villain who has attempted to do so or succeeded in doing so already has the attack they used to attempt to do so with. Buu has his Vanishing Ball, Cell has Kamehameha, Metal Koola has Death Ball, and Broly has his Destruction Sphere. I don't recall Super 13 or Bebi ever trying to destroy the planet. I don't see why you guys are trying to make Spirit Bomb just another attack. Gotenkz's idea to make it all uber and mana draining and stuff was vastly superior. Do you all play as villains all the time or something? well with what you just said, it seems to make more sense for spirit bomb to BE just another attack.. like vanishing ball, death ball, destruction sphere.. etc... although i think if those are the attacks, that kill world, they need more lvls/dmg... the difference is (although i think some of evil's planet breakers took charging time as well) goku's spirit bomb, isn't from his own power, he has to draw it out of the planet... it generally is one of, if not THE, strongest attacks, but it takes some time to make... but yeah, one would think evil's counterpart attacks should be similar in dmg, but also mb longer charging time and added effects... |
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Post by KingCrazyGenius on Oct 3, 2004 10:20:04 GMT -5
No they shouldn't! What is the point of having an ultimate attack that takes the energy of everyone when every villain just has another attack of their own that equals it but has none of the drawbacks (taking all the mana for instance)
The only attack that should be similar is Bebi's revenge death ball.
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Post by CNukemR on Oct 3, 2004 11:21:29 GMT -5
well, both buu and bebi had huge balls of energy they threw at goku (i assume)
so you could make them have similar charge ups..
but giving goku an instant kill or dmg probably around 5X as much as broly's planet breaker, seems a bit unbalanced...
but yeah, giving evil EQUAL skills, with no charge up is a bit much...
but i would think you should increase their's a little to compensate..
also, i think that the skills need to be spaced out more (the ults..)
dragon fist/vanishing ball/death ball/destruct sphere..
increase their dmg, and give them ultimate lvl seperations..
(first at lvl 10 or so, then 5-10 levels inbetween)
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Post by KingCrazyGenius on Oct 3, 2004 11:31:39 GMT -5
Spirit Bomb would be very chancy in this game. Depending on if Goku is safe from being killed, if he has alot of mana, and if other people on his team donate, it could do anywhere from only 2000 damage to being an instant kill. The price for such power is the majority of the good sides mana, leaving them at disadvantage for the time being.
Giving all the evil characters attacks that can compete with the spirit bomb would only serve to cheapen it. It is only powerful because of the massive mana requirements it requires and because of the concept behind it. I see absolutly no reason why evil should be able to compete with it.
Spirit Bomb is really more of a teamwork skill than just Goku's skill. If Goku uses it by himself it won't really accomplish anything.
And yet...and yet I wonder. Since Bebi's Revenge Death Ball works on the concept of drawing power from the anger of others, perhaps Revenge Death Ball can be the answer to Goku's Spirit Bomb, working the same way and all by gathering the anger and hatred (in the form of mana of course) of the evil side. I trust you would have no objections to something as powerful as a spirit bomb if evil has something just like it?
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Post by CNukemR on Oct 3, 2004 11:39:40 GMT -5
First off, spirit bomb SHOULD work solo, most of its energy is derived from the planet (still takes time though), but the allies should give a hefty bonus, and when i say instant kill... i mean triggers that say "kill target hero"..
if the spell does 10K dmg, and you have 5K hp, then you are dead... but at least you had a "chance"
also, the cost of he mana of your teammates, is a weak cost (can anyone say senzu beans?) evil has no such method (besides stealing senzus) to regain mana...
good point, revenge death would be based off the number of humans bebi's takes? (though there needs to be some protect for those people, as in no one will attack them..)
so long as they aren't instant kills (see above)
and although evil in general shouldnt be modified to MATCH the spirit bomb, if we are going to give spirit bomb its apporpraite power, some of the other skills should be brought up somewhat (although as i said, spaced out quite a bit more, more mana cost, more charge time etc..)
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